Interview
‘Trump is
abandoning Ukraine and wants a weaker EU’: Dominique de Villepin on Europe’s
moment of truth
Martin Gelin
The former
French PM says the US is no longer an ally of Europe – but has joined Russia
and China as an ‘illiberal superpower’
Martin Gelin
Sat 1 Mar
2025 06.00 GMT
Dominique de
Villepin made his name with a memorable speech to the UN security council in
February 2003, just before the US-led invasion of Iraq. De Villepin, the then
French foreign minister, in effect signalled France’s intention to veto a UN
resolution authorising the war, forcing the US and UK to act unilaterally. He
warned that Washington’s strategy would lead to chaos in the Middle East and
undermine international institutions. The prophetic plea was met with applause,
a rare event in the security council chamber. It led to the career diplomat’s
inclusion as a character in David Hare’s 2004 anti-war play, Stuff Happens.
Now the
veteran statesman, who warned about the risks of Europe’s over-reliance on the
US many years before it became a mainstream opinion in Paris or Berlin, is back
with advice on how to respond to the most serious breakdown in Europe’s
relationship with the US in 80 years.
As Donald
Trump alienates America’s oldest allies at alarming speed, European leaders are
scrambling to adjust to the new, chaotic world order. But De Villepin believes
there is also an opportunity for Europe to unite behind liberal democracy and
fill the vacuum left behind by the Trump administration. He is convinced that
there is an urgent need for European independence in defence, national security
and technology.
It is a
reflection of the alarm in Europe that Paris, for the last month, has been
bustling with visiting diplomats, premiers and heads of state. On Monday
Emmanuel Macron became the first European leader to be welcomed to the White
House since Trump’s return to power. But Macron has also convened world leaders
to discuss potential new coalitions of countries willing to step in to blunt
the consequences of Trump’s realignment on Ukraine and his apparent readiness
to abandon liberal democracy.
Trump’s
foreign policy is unpredictable, but he appears now to side with Russia over
Ukraine. Even as Macron was at the White House attempting to salvage
transatlantic ties, the US voted with Russia against a UN resolution condemning
Vladimir Putin’s war. North Korea and Belarus were among only a handful of
other nations that followed the US.
“We now have
three illiberal superpowers: Russia, China and the US,” De Villepin says.
“America can no longer be considered an ally of Europe.” But he warns that the
US will not prosper in this disordered, survival-of-the-fittest world it is
creating, “because they will be completely isolated”.
He sees
Trump’s authoritarian turn as both a crisis and an opportunity for Europe to
unite behind a new common purpose. “The consequence of this will be a European
awakening of democracy. We’re going to fight for liberal democracy more than
ever. Because the question now is really: sovereignty or submission.”
Achieving
European sovereignty sounds logical, but how do we get there? De Villepin
suggests a three-point plan for a more assertive and independent continent. The
first step is to develop a common defence pact in Europe, with a significant
boost to the European defence industry. “We urgently need to develop our own
systems, and not just buy from the US.” The second is to increase investment in
innovation and tech, as outlined in the Draghi report last year, which warned
of an “agonising decline” for Europe in the absence of an €800bn annual
spending boost. The third step is to strengthen Franco-British collaboration on
defence, intelligence, nuclear issues and Ukraine, where De Villepin wants to
see clear security guarantees in the event of a treaty and ceasefire.
“We have to
take our destiny in our own hands,” he says. “Stop believing in illusions.
Trump is abandoning Ukraine and [Elon] Musk is supporting extremist movements
in Europe because they want a weaker EU. They understand that Europe is now the
main obstacle for their vision. And this is, of course, not acceptable.”
Does he
support Ukraine’s European – including French – allies putting boots on the
ground to protect against a future Russian attack? “As part of an agreed
peacekeeping plan by the international community, I would support a French
contribution.”
Back in
2003, De Villepin’s impassioned UN speech was delivered during a similar low
point in transatlantic relations, with American neoconservatives renaming
French fries “freedom fries” while rightwing news organisations labelled France
and other European countries opposing the Iraq invasion an “axis of weasels”.
His
challenge to George Bush’s US, which drew on the painful wartime history
underpinning the transatlantic alliance, remains acutely relevant in 2025.
“This message comes to you today from an old country, France, from an old
continent like mine, Europe, that has known wars, occupation and barbarity,” he
told the security council in 2003. “A country that does not forget and knows
everything it owes to the freedom fighters who came from America and elsewhere.
And yet has never ceased to stand upright in the face of history and before
mankind. Faithful to its values, it wishes resolutely to act with all the
members of the international community.”
Rumours of a
De Villepin run for the Élysée in 2027 have been circulating in the French
media. He remains coy about a presidential ambition. What is clear, however, is
that he thinks the next wave of national elections across Europe will be
decided as much by national security and foreign affairs as by domestic issues.
“National security will be the most important issue for voters, because it’s
about liberty, values, whether we believe in sovereignty or submission.”
This seems
to be the rationale behind his return to public life – not just as a potential
presidential candidate in France, but as the unofficial spokesperson for what
he calls “European sovereignty”. He used the phrase six times during our
90-minute conversation. “With my background, my opposition to the Iraq war and
all my experience of dealing with geopolitical crises, I felt that there were
missing voices speaking up for the defence of Europe, the defence of our
values, so it was my duty to speak up.”
De Villepin
belongs to a long tradition of French politicians sceptical of America’s global
supremacy, and now feels vindicated. But he’s not pushing a dogmatic
anti-Americanism. He has close ties to the US, studied there, and emphasises
his respect for America’s soft power, its universities, its culture of
innovation. “They are giving that up for this absurd idea of full power. They
are ignoring history. You can never win with fire alone.”
He forecasts
that mass protests against Trump will emerge across the US as soon as the
failures of his policies become evident. He predicts, like most economists,
that the trade tariffs will lead to exploding inflation and layoffs, and that
Trump’s “reckless” foreign policy will make the country much weaker. “This is
always the problem for the nationalists and populists. What I call the
principle of reality.”
The problem,
I suggest, is that the far right is waging war on reality, and it seems to be
winning – at least in the US. In the presidential election last year, Trump won
the popular vote with a small margin of 1.5 percentage points nationwide, but
he won by an average of 54 points in “news deserts”, where few serious local
media outlets are available, according to a study from Northwestern University.
Elon Musk
wants a complete vassalisation of Europe and European media
De Villepin
sees this as an urgent call to build up the European tech industry and
encourage independence from US platforms. “Elon Musk wants a complete
vassalisation of Europe and European media. So this is a question of our
fundamental liberties, and our freedom to think what we want to think. We need
to build our own tools, whether it’s LLMs [large language models], social
platforms or cloud tech. We have to understand that this is a state of
emergency.”
Before
Germany’s general election on 23 February, Musk campaigned frenetically for the
far right AfD, but to less effect than he might have hoped for. The party was
polling at about 20% when Musk embraced it and ended up with 20.8% of the vote.
De Villepin does not believe that a Musk intervention in favour of the far
right would be particularly successful in France, either. “Oh, it would be the
surest way for Le Pen to lose, if Elon Musk came here to campaign with her.”
Jordan
Bardella, the youthful president of Marine Le Pen’s National Rally party,
cancelled a trip to a rightwing conference in the US after the former Trump
aide Steve Bannon made what appeared to be a Nazi salute at the event.
De Villepin
predicts that Le Pen will try to keep some distance between herself and Trump’s
Maga movement, but he insists they are ideological twins. “She’s very close to
Russia. Close to these ideas. Anti-globalisation, anti-immigration,
anti-multiculturalism. So they’re completely linked.”
His own path
to a potential presidential candidacy might be filled with obstacles and
contradictions. As a pro-Palestinian, moderate conservative Gaullist, he could
struggle to get past the first round. But he clearly sees a political future
where his foreign policy experience will top most immediate domestic concerns.
For now, he
says, European nationalists can gather, as they did recently in Madrid, laud
Trump and pledge to “make Europe great again” – but soon, he believes, Trump
will be a toxic brand in Europe. “This is an opportunity for Europe to be the
voice of stability,” he says. “Because here, we know the consequences of
authoritarian nationalism.”
Martin Gelin
writes for the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter
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