Opinion
THE
CONVERSATION
Is It Too Late to Impeach Trump Again?
The president showed this weekend that he still has
Georgia on his mind.
Gail
CollinsBret Stephens
By Gail
Collins and Bret Stephens
Ms. Collins
and Mr. Stephens are opinion columnists. They converse every week.
Jan. 4,
2021
Bret
Stephens: Belated happy new year, Gail. I was hoping we could celebrate the
arrival of 2021 by never mentioning Donald Trump’s name again, except maybe as
a punchline to jokes involving foul-mouthed parrots. But then our friends at
The Washington Post broke the news that the president begged and bullied Brad
Raffensperger, Georgia’s secretary of state, to “find” him the “11,780 votes”
he needed to flip the state’s 16 electoral votes his way. To his credit,
Raffensperger told him to get lost (proof, by the way, that not every Republican
official has lost his soul).
Anyway,
serious question: Is it too late to impeach Trump again?
Gail: He
certainly deserves it, but one of my goals for 2021 is to stop obsessing about
the evils of Donald Trump in hopes that if we ignore him he’ll go away.
Bret: I say
impeach him again.
Gail: Well,
I guess it’d be better than contemplating the pandemic 24-7. And I guess more
elevating than probing the alleged Trump family crises over Melania’s
Mar-a-Lago redecoration.
Bret: Trump
is America’s very own Pandora, a clown of malice, the impresario of idiocy,
Nero without a fiddle and Caligula without a horse. His one achievement in
Georgia is that the Democrats might end up sweeping the two Georgia Senate
races this week, denying Mitch McConnell his majority.
Your
feelings?
Gail:
There’s certainly no reason the Democrats shouldn’t win both Georgia senate
elections, given the terribleness of their opponents. One of the Republicans,
Kelly Loeffler, famously bragged she was “more conservative than Attila the
Hun.”
Bret: That
still puts her well to the left of Republican Senators Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz,
Ron Johnson, Marsha Blackburn and the eight others who are attempting to stop
Joe Biden’s inauguration. Sorry, go on.
Gail:
Loeffler’s super rich and co-owns a W.N.B.A. team whose players hate her. Not
that I want to be critical.
Bret: You,
critical?
Gail: The
other Republican, Senator David Perdue, is also extremely wealthy, thanks to a
career built around outsourcing American jobs. He appears to be so terrified of
his Democratic opponent that he’s skipped most of the debates and left Jon
Ossoff answering reporters’ questions next to an empty lectern.
The
Democrats need to elect both Ossoff and Loeffler’s opponent, the Rev. Raphael
Warnock, in order to give Joe Biden a measly 50-50 split in the Senate. Trump
and Biden are both coming to rally the troops. I’m very nervous. And who, by
the way, are you rooting for?
Bret: I’m
hoping that Loeffler wins and Perdue loses, not that I’m remotely enthusiastic
about either of them. In Loeffler’s case, she’s exactly what you say she is.
But Rev. Warnock is way too far to the left for my taste. Ossoff is more of a
centrist. Also, I want Republicans to maintain control of the Senate by the
narrowest possible margin.
Gail: So
instead of feeling overwhelmed with horror we can feel overwhelmed with
frustration?
Bret: Ha!
Didn’t you know that James Madison wrote the original lyrics to “(I Can’t Get
No) Satisfaction”?
I know this
will drive some of our readers nuts, but I think divided government is
generally good for the country and will also be good for the Biden presidency.
It will keep the A.O.C. wing of the Democratic Party firmly in check, which is
where it needs to be if Democrats don’t want to lose the House in ’22. And it
will steer Biden’s legislative priorities toward centrist goals, like
comprehensive immigration reform, that can pick up some Republican votes.
Gail: Yeah,
who wants aid for the poor, fairer taxes and health care reform when you can
spend the whole year discussing infrastructure?
Bret:
Exactly.
Having said
all that, I’m kind of enjoying the thought that Trump’s fulminations about the
Georgia races being “illegal and invalid” are helping to further drive
Democratic turnout while persuading potential G.O.P. voters to stay away from
the polls. It sort of reminds me of one of the final scenes in “The Hunt for
Red October,” where the evil Russian captain Tupolev manages to steer his sub
into the path of his own torpedo, and his first officer says, “You arrogant
ass, you’ve killed us!” So if Democrats do take the Senate, at least there’s a
silver lining in further humiliating and repudiating Trump.
Gail: Hey,
I was hoping we could start the year with a couple of your pop culture
references.
Bret:
Alternatively, maybe the G.O.P. is like the guy who tries to catch the
boomerang in “Mad Max 2.” (Viewer discretion advised.)
In the
meantime, Gail, the rollout of the coronavirus vaccine, which I’m hoping my mom
can get soon, isn’t exactly going smoothly. I think this is one of those
subjects where you and I might have some old-fashioned
liberal-versus-conservative disagreements about governments and competence.
Gail: Which
I will begin by pointing out we aren’t talking about “governments” being
competent — we’re talking about the Trump administration. The cities and states
are reeling from economic collapse. They need money for vaccination centers,
staff and public education. While our president just says: You’ve got the
vaccine: Now get it out!
Bret: As
far as New York City is concerned, he’s right. As of Jan. 1, The Times reports
that more than 340,000 vaccine doses had been delivered to the city, but only
about a quarter of them had been administered, amounting to about one percent
of the city’s population. Bill de Blasio is blaming Andrew Cuomo for not
providing guidance, while Cuomo’s people are saying the rollout is going just
fine. The stupid infighting between Hizzoner and the Gov is “DISGRACEFUL AND
PATHETIC!” I can almost imagine the presidential tweet.
Gail:
Speaking of Trump messages, I’m really going to miss all those notes from the
president to supporters urging that they donate funds for worthy causes that
always turn out to be … him. There was one over the holidays that I meant to send
you promising “free” Trump Christmas stickers to the loyal recipient, and then
adding “That’s right. All you have to do is give $15 and we’ll send you these
ICONIC stickers for FREE!”
Bret: I
often find myself wondering what P.T. Barnum, Mark Twain, H.L. Mencken or Joan
Rivers would say about the Trump presidency, were they alive to see it. What is
it about a sucker being born every minute and democracy being the art and
science of running the circus from the monkey cage?
Gail:
What’s your prediction for Trump’s personal future? Everybody knows he’s out of
money, deep in back tax bills. And he can’t pardon himself for crimes that only
involve New York law.
Bret: I
would be wary of trying to prosecute him for anything short of a red-letter
violation of the law. In a perfect world, Trump would spend the rest of his
days visiting the homes of every contractor he’s ever stiffed and every Trump U
student he’s ever defrauded and scrubbing their toilets.
In the real
world, however, prosecution would feed Trump’s martyrdom complex, help him
raise even more money, keep his supporters in his thrall, focus media coverage
on him, and maybe even encourage him to run in 2024. Trump is the presidential
edition of the classic screaming toddler: the only way to make him shut up is
to deprive him of the attention he craves.
Am I too
naïve? Do you say, throw the book at him as soon as we can?
Gail: As
usual you’re very reasonable, Bret. But I’m definitely for throwing the book,
or encyclopedia. Or library. Sending the message to his supporters that being
persecuted isn’t as much of a problem as making sure the rest of the country
understands that this guy doesn’t give a rap about them — he’s been in this for
his own financial gain. And OK, the egomania too.
Looking
forward to hearing your thoughts about all that goes on this week in
Washington, Georgia, and the rest of the nation, as we stagger into the new
year.
Which I am
so glad I’ll be sharing with you.
Bret: We’ll
raise a toast to our Trumpless world, whenever that finally happens, and
whatever that turns out to be.
Gail
Collins is an Op-Ed columnist and a former member of the editorial board, and
was the first woman to serve as the Times editorial page editor, from 2001 to
2007. @GailCollins • Facebook
Bret L.
Stephens has been an Opinion columnist with The Times since April 2017. He won
a Pulitzer Prize for commentary at The Wall Street Journal in 2013 and was
previously editor in chief of The Jerusalem Post. Facebook
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